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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2006 : 1:10:15 PM
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I'm wondering if anyone knows or can tell me the reasoning that Marvel had in the mid 90s when all the flag ship titles decided to end their runs and start over at again at Vol 2 and a new #1? Was the idea just to have more #1's to sell more books? It seems kind of silly to me considering that most of those books that it happened to were 30 years and older at that point and in the case of ASM, FF, and Avengers(for a time) they went back to the old numbering again anyway.
I wish they hadn't done that personally, but I wondered why? Did they announce something at the time? I didn't collect at all in teh 90s.
What's in my long boxes? http://www.comicspriceguide.com/world/default.asp?m=icebreaka |
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Doctrmidnite
Forum Moderator
USA
3719 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 1:30:04 PM
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We have Onslaught to thank for that. With the "Heroes Reborn" story, it seemed like a great marketing ploy to relaunch the respective titles in their own pocket universe with #1 issues. When those ended, they decided on the Volume 3's. Then they realized they were all pretty much approaching their respective #500 marks and reverted to the old numbering.
Quite a headache for any new collector to try to figure out why their favorite characters were split out among three different volumes over the course of a year. And everyone here would agree with you -- they should have left the numbering the way it was.
My Comic Collection Could Beat Up Your Comic Collection -- http://www.comicspriceguide.com/world/default.asp?m=DoctrMidNite |
Edited by - Doctrmidnite on 10/17/2006 1:30:49 PM |
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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
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Rome
A True Collector
USA
1184 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 4:49:03 PM
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The the pocket universe was thanks to young Franklin Richards I believe.
As for the numbering... I expect we may see the same reversion in the Avengers line in the near future.
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous. |
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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
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Basquiat
A True Collector
USA
3761 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 6:43:48 PM
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Not all of their flagship titles changed. Uncanny X-Men is currently the longest running consectively numbered comic Marvel has without interuption.
Too many humans in the rat race and too many rats in the human race.
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aarondawe
A True Collector
Canada
4192 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 7:36:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Basquiat
Not all of their flagship titles changed. Uncanny X-Men is currently the longest running consectively numbered comic Marvel has without interuption.
Too many humans in the rat race and too many rats in the human race.
Although they did have that run of reprints for a while between 65-94...
Aaron |
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ronankan
A True Collector
Ireland
1863 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 7:56:26 PM
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its a pity the way, when you look up your titles you cant get a true reflection of how may FF and Spider-man you really have.
SAY CHEESE !!! |
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The Fuj
A True Collector
USA
3015 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 8:36:12 PM
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Brass Tacks:
The Marvel Super-Hero books (Avengers, FF, Iron Man) were selling POORLY. It was basically Spider-man (which wasn't doing great), and X-Men which was, but it was their number 1 franchise at the time. Captain America was just catching fire, and Waid/Garney got bumped off for the heroes reborn.
The question really is, was Onslaught planned before Lee/Liefeld signed onto Marvel, and made up a story so conviently, or was Lee/Liefeld braught in brought in after the initial Onslaught planning stages?
Hmmm.
Personally, I think Onslaught was planned after Lee/Liefeld signed on. Marvel goes "Great we got Jim and Rob back in the fold. Maybe they can do some work on Obnoxio the Clown, and a Superpro reboot."
"Uh Mr. Marvel exec, We got Onslaught coming up, and the super heroes are going to be thrown into a pocket universe"
"Oh my god. We can put the Image boys on those books, maybe they can spark some interest. Hi Mr. Waid. These two whipper snappers are going to take over your Fantastic Cap America run. I know we didn't give you a chance, but it's F'N JIM LEE, and ROB Liefeld."
"%&%$#&^@%$#^&!!!"
Mark Waid goes nuts and Years later, works for Crossgen.
Gstorm.tk- For the worst wrestling message board on the 'net. Bash Triple H if you like.
"Is Boos, but it now" The Immortal Thomas Blue |
Edited by - The Fuj on 10/17/2006 8:36:52 PM |
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Defiant1
A True Collector
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2006 : 11:18:18 PM
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The whole industry is very short sighted and they only look at what they can do short term to increase sales. That is why you see an obnoxious number of #1's, continual reboots, special crossovers, variant covers etc. The art of actually making comics that attract a fan base over time is a lost art. That requires stable creative teams that respect the characters and take pride in their work. These days creators just hop from project to project trying to pad their resume.
I'll never forget listening to one popular artist tell how he didn't want to draw a hero in prison garb. He only wanted to draw the hero in classic poses. He turned down working on a series with a popular writer because of that. As long as the ego's in this industry call the shots, comics will never be what they once were.
Defiant1
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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
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beachbum8994
Journeyman
138 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2006 : 12:39:13 PM
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Haha, I love on the entry for heroes reborn with the Cap drawn by Liefeld and his chest makes his body twice as big as it should be! Gotta love that Liefeld disproportionate parts.
Rob "Gotta Have Big Guns" Liefeld. |
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eriqui
A True Collector
USA
1271 Posts |
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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
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Rome
A True Collector
USA
1184 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2006 : 7:25:53 PM
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Onslaught was a very convenient leaving point for me as a collector. I only picked up the #1's and 2's of Heroes Reborn, and after rereading them recently, I realized that they were twice as awful as I even remember. Some of the art from those Image boys was pretty good, but what terrible stories!
What a waste to reboot with that crap!
Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;
He thinks too much: such men are dangerous. |
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Defiant1
A True Collector
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2006 : 10:30:32 PM
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I steer clear of any Wikipedia content about comics. Some complete morons are posting there. The truth is skewed sharply and some really stupid details get added.
Look at this crap....
"Valiant Comics is the comic book publishing company founded by former Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Jim Shooter and renowned writer/artists Bob Layton and Barry Windsor-Smith in 1989."
Bob Layton and Barry Windsor Smith weren't founders of Valiant. Bob Layton was brought in as a hired hand. The company was already started. Layton, while at a convention, told me his first artwork for Valiant was the cover to Captain N #1. He drew it in "the lawyers office". That sure isn't their first comic. Barry Windsor Smith didn't show up for another couple of years. There are complete idiots with only heresay and opinions writing this stuff.
Look at this brilliant inclussion to the Valiant Comics entry...
"Skree - Sound made by Freewill robots when they die (usually at the hands of Magnus, Robot Fighter)."
I'm sorry, but if I'm reading an encyclopedia to find out about a company, I think it's tacky and irrelevant what sounds their writers had the robots make when they die.
I particularly like the way Jim Shooter is credited for everything related to Defiant Comics. I'm sure Art Holcomb would be pleased to see that Jim Shooter wrote all the Dogs of War issues since Jim only plotted the series and maybe assisted on a couple out of 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_of_War_%28Comics%29
For over a year, the John Byrne entry had a comment that John Byrne doesn't like black people. Do not trust these entries people. Be a little smarter than that.
Defiant1
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Edited by - Defiant1 on 10/21/2006 10:31:41 PM |
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Crowman
A True Collector
Maldives
2450 Posts |
Posted - 10/22/2006 : 04:12:27 AM
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Marvel should be shot for what they have done to their "institution" titles. Any bood that begabn its run pre 1970 should be left to run its natural course. If it aon't broke don't try and fix it.
Look at Action Comics, Detective Comics, Batman and Superman. All these titles are reaching mega levels.
Bigamy means having one wife too many.... Monogamy means the same thing :0) |
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AltrEgo2001
A True Collector
USA
1263 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 3:40:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1
I steer clear of any Wikipedia content about comics. Some complete morons are posting there. The truth is skewed sharply and some really stupid details get added.
Look at this crap....
"Valiant Comics is the comic book publishing company founded by former Marvel Comics editor-in-chief Jim Shooter and renowned writer/artists Bob Layton and Barry Windsor-Smith in 1989."
Bob Layton and Barry Windsor Smith weren't founders of Valiant. Bob Layton was brought in as a hired hand. The company was already started. Layton, while at a convention, told me his first artwork for Valiant was the cover to Captain N #1. He drew it in "the lawyers office". That sure isn't their first comic. Barry Windsor Smith didn't show up for another couple of years. There are complete idiots with only heresay and opinions writing this stuff.
Look at this brilliant inclussion to the Valiant Comics entry...
"Skree - Sound made by Freewill robots when they die (usually at the hands of Magnus, Robot Fighter)."
I'm sorry, but if I'm reading an encyclopedia to find out about a company, I think it's tacky and irrelevant what sounds their writers had the robots make when they die.
I particularly like the way Jim Shooter is credited for everything related to Defiant Comics. I'm sure Art Holcomb would be pleased to see that Jim Shooter wrote all the Dogs of War issues since Jim only plotted the series and maybe assisted on a couple out of 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogs_of_War_%28Comics%29
For over a year, the John Byrne entry had a comment that John Byrne doesn't like black people. Do not trust these entries people. Be a little smarter than that.
Defiant1
That's the great think about Wikipedia Def, you can go in and fix entries that are wrong, or if you don't feel like that, you can go to the discussion page for that particular article and explain why it needs to be edited. I personally LOVE to go into Wiki articles and correct them when I find incorrect info.
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Nothing works here.
The medications don't work.
I hate this place.
I've been here seven years. |
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aarondawe
A True Collector
Canada
4192 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2006 : 4:36:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Crowman
Marvel should be shot for what they have done to their "institution" titles. Any bood that begabn its run pre 1970 should be left to run its natural course. If it aon't broke don't try and fix it.
Look at Action Comics, Detective Comics, Batman and Superman. All these titles are reaching mega levels.
Bigamy means having one wife too many.... Monogamy means the same thing :0)
But don't forget though that Superman changed to Adventures of Superman just so that John Byrne's ego could say he drew Superman #1. DC beat Marvel by a decade by tossing tradtion for an artists ego.
Aaron |
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Crowman
A True Collector
Maldives
2450 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 12:06:44 AM
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I had not realised that... valid point.
Bigamy means having one wife too many.... Monogamy means the same thing :0) |
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Defiant1
A True Collector
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 09:54:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by AltrEgo2001
That's the great thing about Wikipedia Def, you can go in and fix entries that are wrong, or if you don't feel like that, you can go to the discussion page for that particular article and explain why it needs to be edited. I personally LOVE to go into Wiki articles and correct them when I find incorrect info.
Why would I want to 'fix' anything when some moron can come behind me five minutes later and erase it all? I may know enough to dispute 2/3rds of a listing but not enough enough to write it myself. The fact is, I'd erase a lot of the ones I've seen and start from scratch entirely. If you look up Sean Chen, some moron has included pictures of Valiant comic logo penguins. When you turn the asylum over to the patients, that's exactly what you get.
defiant1
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Doctrmidnite
Forum Moderator
USA
3719 Posts |
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Icebreaka
A True Collector
Canada
1232 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 12:37:26 PM
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I like wikipedia, sure its not perfect but where is the better one stop shop on the net for info. 99.5% of it is accurate so why freak about the other 0.5%
As for Action Comics that will be something. I like the way you add modern comic though Dr. Midnight, there hasn't been any other comic period to hit that number properly. That's a lot of months!
What's in my long boxes? http://www.comicspriceguide.com/world/default.asp?m=icebreaka |
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Alehldean
Forum Moderator
USA
2577 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 1:52:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctrmidnite
The first modern comic to reach one thousand.
Huh?
Get on the list!
My Other Home |
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NSPhillips
Forum Apprentice
USA
51 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 3:03:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doctrmidnite
Anyone eagerly anticipating Action Comics #1,000 as much as I am? The first modern comic to reach one thousand. Awesome.
My Comic Collection Could Beat Up Your Comic Collection -- http://www.comicspriceguide.com/world/default.asp?m=DoctrMidNite
I remember being excited when it went weekly and trying to compute when 1,000 would come around. Too bad that lasted less than a year... Think it would have hit 1,000 in early 1996. |
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Doctrmidnite
Forum Moderator
USA
3719 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2006 : 3:10:33 PM
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The reason I said "modern" is because Earl sometimes reminds us that there was once a daily comic (I forget what it was called) that actually had over a thousand issues back in the day. At least that's what I remember.
My Comic Collection Could Beat Up Your Comic Collection -- http://www.comicspriceguide.com/world/default.asp?m=DoctrMidNite |
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Alehldean
Forum Moderator
USA
2577 Posts |
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AltrEgo2001
A True Collector
USA
1263 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 10:49:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1
quote:
Originally posted by AltrEgo2001
That's the great thing about Wikipedia Def, you can go in and fix entries that are wrong, or if you don't feel like that, you can go to the discussion page for that particular article and explain why it needs to be edited. I personally LOVE to go into Wiki articles and correct them when I find incorrect info.
Why would I want to 'fix' anything when some moron can come behind me five minutes later and erase it all? I may know enough to dispute 2/3rds of a listing but not enough enough to write it myself. The fact is, I'd erase a lot of the ones I've seen and start from scratch entirely. If you look up Sean Chen, some moron has included pictures of Valiant comic logo penguins. When you turn the asylum over to the patients, that's exactly what you get.
defiant1
Any Wikipedia articles that are constantly vandalized can and will be locked down so that only registered users can edit them. Then if the registered user STILL vandalizes an article, they can be banned from editing altogether. Even un-registered edits can be tracked by IP address, which will be blocked if they're found to be vandalizing articles. And if you don't feel like editing an article, but do know that the info contained in it is incorrect, you can request that someone else edit it, much like I did on the Wolverine Wiki article, where I asked that someone please re-write it so it didn't "read like an 8th-grade book report." Someone other than myself finally did re-write it. It's still not perfect, but a lot better than it was. It's a great system if you use it the way it was intended.
Here's one we could probably ALL contribute to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book_collecting
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Nothing works here.
The medications don't work.
I hate this place.
I've been here seven years. |
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Defiant1
A True Collector
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 10/25/2006 : 7:57:40 PM
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My point is that idiots are writing them to begin with. Idiots don't know they are stupid. They get online and write their garbage and act like they are experts simply because they own a few comics. An encyclopedia should be based entirely on facts not just really cool info that someone's buddy told them because they know Alan Moore's third cousin's 2nd wife.
Vandalizing is one thing. Writing a comics article and filling it with opinion and heresay is another. Simply because you are overexcited with your power to make changes, it should still be left to people who can properly compose a sentence and those who understand what a reliable reference is.
Let's say I go "correct" the info about Barry Windsor-Smith being a founding member of Valiant. All it takes is said writer winning some online popularity contest. The truth can be outvoted and it'll go back to the heresay and rumor that the article had before. The whole wikipedia is garbage. People who don't understand how to segregate fact and rumor are blending the two seamlessly.
Some people get online not knowing it's supposed to be a real encyclopedia. They'll cange a listing as a joke. If I come along 5 minutes later thinking the article is fact, I'm likely to start spreading the misinformation further.
In most cases that won't matter. In other cases people have been victims of libel and it tarnished their reputation and public image.
Defiant1
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Alehldean
Forum Moderator
USA
2577 Posts |
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ARNOLDCOMICS
A True Collector
USA
623 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 07:38:45 AM
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Although they did have that run of reprints for a while between 65-94...
Aaron
[ /quote]
Huh?! Wha?!! Whats that have to do with numbering systems? |
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aarondawe
A True Collector
Canada
4192 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2006 : 09:31:03 AM
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Well, the Uncanny X-men numbering is unbroken, yes -- but it was not all new issues and stories, which to me means that the run isn't the same as the FF or Spider-man. For many collectors, the reprint run of X-men is not necessary to get a 'full run'.
Aaron |
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BMXman
A True Collector
Canada
2167 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2006 : 02:44:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1
The whole industry is very short sighted and they only look at what they can do short term to increase sales. That is why you see an obnoxious number of #1's, continual reboots, special crossovers, variant covers etc. The art of actually making comics that attract a fan base over time is a lost art. That requires stable creative teams that respect the characters and take pride in their work. These days creators just hop from project to project trying to pad their resume.
As long as the ego's in this industry call the shots, comics will never be what they once were.
Defiant1
I totally agree....D
WANTED: All Negro Comics #1
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slym2none
A True Collector
USA
5623 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2006 : 5:30:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1
If you look up Sean Chen, some moron has included pictures of Valiant comic logo penguins.
Maybe that's because Sean Chen hand-sculpts each of those penguins himself. I can see why that would be there. There is an inside "joke" about no penguins in the VALIANT (all caps, all the time) universe, so Sean ran with it. Does that make him stupid to do it? No. Does that make the person who wrote that article a moron? No again. Fans will be fans, no matter what.
Maybe I oughta stir up a pot elsewhere... I might can get Sean to come here and explain things himself - if neccessary.
-slym
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KC
Forum Apprentice
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 2:36:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1
quote:
Originally posted by AltrEgo2001
That's the great thing about Wikipedia Def, you can go in and fix entries that are wrong, or if you don't feel like that, you can go to the discussion page for that particular article and explain why it needs to be edited. I personally LOVE to go into Wiki articles and correct them when I find incorrect info.
Why would I want to 'fix' anything when some moron can come behind me five minutes later and erase it all? I may know enough to dispute 2/3rds of a listing but not enough enough to write it myself. The fact is, I'd erase a lot of the ones I've seen and start from scratch entirely. If you look up Sean Chen, some moron has included pictures of Valiant comic logo penguins. When you turn the asylum over to the patients, that's exactly what you get.
defiant1
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KC
Forum Apprentice
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 2:59:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Defiant1If you look up Sean Chen, some moron has included pictures of Valiant comic logo penguins. When you turn the asylum over to the patients, that's exactly what you get.
Sean Chen has done beautiful work with penguins with Valiant characters logos on them. They are member only projects for ValiantFans.com. So far he has done ones for Solar, Rai and Shadowman. He is also working on prototypes statues for actual Valiant characters, but they are not done yet. He is truly the Michelangelo of the ValiantFans.com board.
Just because you do not know about something does not mean that it does not exist. I am not the "Moron" that posted about them on Wiki, but I very well could have been...
All I can say is that you would have known about these projects if you were still a member of the ValiantFans.com community.
Chris |
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Alehldean
Forum Moderator
USA
2577 Posts |
Posted - 10/29/2006 : 3:18:22 PM
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Back on topic. You want to discuss the pros and cons of Wikipedia, start a thread in the Open Discussion forum.
Get on the list!
My Other Home |
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Marvel History : Ending of the Long Running Titles
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