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RE: CGC Paranoia

kps01 — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 12:24:21 GMT

[quote][b]Crowman (4/22/2008)[/b][hr]I too have wondered about this but have never really been too concerened because I have yet to send any books in for grading. However, this may change the next time I am back in the UK as I reckon it is time to send some of my books in.

I think King makes a very valid point about CGC's integrity.

I will have to decide whether I use a third party to send my books in or just package them up and do it myself.[/quote]

Just send them yourself. It's really easy. I don't know why anybody uses a middleman -- which does increase the potential for problems. You're already going to be paying through the nose in postage if you're going to be doing it from the UK.

RE: CGC Paranoia

Crowman — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:26:46 GMT

I too have wondered about this but have never really been too concerened because I have yet to send any books in for grading. However, this may change the next time I am back in the UK as I reckon it is time to send some of my books in.

I think King makes a very valid point about CGC's integrity.

I will have to decide whether I use a third party to send my books in or just package them up and do it myself.

RE: CGC Paranoia

kps01 — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:10:11 GMT

[quote][b]generalgrog (4/22/2008)[/b][hr][quote][b]aarondawe (4/22/2008)[/b][hr]I seriously doubt CGC would switch books, but some dealers that submit toCGC for the public could conceivably.[/quote]

Not to sound like too much of a noob but wouldn't you be able to tell if someone cracked oneof the CGC cases? Have there been proven cases of people successfully "counterfitting" CGC books?

This scares me more than the possibility of CGC doing it.

GG[/quote]

Haven't been any cases I've heard of. I'm sure it'd be discovered pretty fast. As a practical matter, a book that was worth the cost of counterfeiting a CGC case, label, etc., would draw way too much scrutiny to succeed. Each slab is assigned a number that is very easily traceable.

And yeah, unless you're talking a very, very sophisticated operation (which would get busted by the serial number anyway), you're going to be able to tell a slab is cracked.

You're far, far safer buying CGC specifically (PGX is OK for modern) than buying raw.

RE: CGC Paranoia

aarondawe — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:07:54 GMT

Considering the amount of scrutiny that some books have gotten (like the suspected (at the time) Ewert books), all it would take is for a few people who had scans of books before they submitted, compared to the ones they got back for such a plot to totally destroy the company.

Two thoughts. A book would have to be close to the same grade to escape notice for most people. Unless you're dealing with high grade moderns (9.8 or above) you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. It would be easier for CGC to just massage the grade in their favour than swap a book.

The second is that the book would have to be of suffciently high worth to make a swap worthwhile. I doubt a guy submitting an Action Comics #1 wouldn't have scans or pictures of his book. Such a swap would be hard to pull of undetected.

RE: CGC Paranoia

kps01 — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:06:07 GMT

Don't sweat the stuff you can't logically control. If you're too worried, just don't do it. If you want to do it, just do it and don't worry about it because worrying about stuff outside your control is a complete waste of time and energy. These guys handle THE best books in the world. The book that is your prized posession probably doesn't even draw a second glance from them. (Not saying your stuff isn't nice -- I have no idea -- just saying it would probably take a heck of a book to draw a second glance from them).

Me, I take the leap of faith and I don't have a problem with either CGC or PGX.

RE: CGC Paranoia

generalgrog — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 20:04:37 GMT

[quote][b]aarondawe (4/22/2008)[/b][hr]I seriously doubt CGC would switch books, but some dealers that submit to CGC for the public could conceivably.[/quote]

Not to sound like too much of a noob but wouldn't you be able to tell if someone cracked one of the CGC cases? Have there been proven cases of people successfully "counterfitting" CGC books?

This scares me more than the possibility of CGC doing it.

RE: CGC Paranoia

KingOfRulers — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:39:25 GMT

You can't prove it I suppose, but there are a lot of things in life that cannot be proven. By the fact we are not physically in the room watching the grading happen means that it cannot be proven. Generally I can recall what my books look like. With books that I sell, I tend to deal in higher value and low volume, so it makes it easier for me. But I can see how it would be impossible for people that send in thousands of high grade Bronze books to ever recall many if any of the books.

The employees at CGC were known dealers and/or collectors in the industry prior to working for CGC. Remember that CGC is just one of several other collectible grading companies that CGG owns. So, I would guess that when CGC was created CGG interviewed people in the industry and hired out the first few employees, and then they probably left it up to them to choose the rest of the employees.

RE: CGC Paranoia

wpbooks — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:42:38 GMT

King,
What you say does indeed make sense, but how could you prove it, if it were the case? I mean what does CGC do that allowed them to earn this trust? I really know very little about the company or the people who run it, whereas I would know my local comic book seller and at least have a better point of reference with which to judge his trustworthiness. Should one make secret marks on the comics for later proof of submission, take detailed scans of known blemishes, or what? It's because I see lots of these encapsulated comics at shows now that I have to wonder what happens if some employee of CGC with his own agenda gets in there. These are the ideas that many a good comic book plot stems from....

RE: CGC Paranoia

KingOfRulers — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:20:50 GMT

I agree. Dealers or stores might do this.

But CGC? No way. It doesn't make fiscal sense that they might want to make $5000 switching someones X-men #1s around when they are probably getting that amounts every day in submissions.

RE: CGC Paranoia

kps01 — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:19:49 GMT

I agree, I'm not saying I think they're doing it. But I've still had the thought...

RE: CGC Paranoia

aarondawe — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:10:19 GMT

I seriously doubt CGC would switch books, but some dealers that submit to CGC for the public could conceivably.

RE: CGC Paranoia

KingOfRulers — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:07:58 GMT

I have never had this feeling.

CGC's entire business model is built on the foundation of trust. If they ever lose that, they will go out of business. CGC is making more money using this model than they ever would switching yours, or mine or anyone else's books.

RE: CGC Paranoia

kps01 — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:18:54 GMT

I've had the same paranoid thoughts before. But, whaddya gonna do?

CGC Paranoia

wpbooks — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:58:42 GMT

So, I'm wondering....as I await the return of the first 2 books that I have sent to CGC for grading.....since the books are encapsulated and all, has anybody ever felt like the books that were sent back to them might not be the books that they submitted? I mean why should one trust that the folks that run the service aren't in this thing for themselves? Seems like fodder for an independent film script....but c'mon how can one be really sure that some kind of switch isn't being pulled? What if you send a book that is a valuable and rare variant, where the point of contention is inside the book? How do you know it's the book you're getting back? How can you be sure? The kinds of thoughts the modern day comic collector has when drifting off to sleep.....but perhaps this has already been covered somewhere before, no?